Curse

Bryant Again · Jun 04, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

That has be refuted a very long time ago. "Works as intended" and "doesn´t work as intended"! Look it up!

But if it doesn't affect anyone, why is there such an urgency to fix it?

PS: Hi Ryker. Am I in before close?

bhavv · Jun 04, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

On second thoughts, dont forget that most places in PVE nowadays have plenty of enchant removal, which furthur makes this skill less usefull.

around · Jun 04, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

HAY GUIZE SIGNET OF GHOSTLY MIGHT WAS TOTALLY BALANCED AMIRITE?

Because, shock as it is, Ursan being overpowered does affect my gameplay. If I want to play with other people (this being an MMORPG AND ALL) I am forced to spend time grinding Norn rank, even when I have other, more constructive things, to do with my time (revise, eat, sleep, run around LA spamming trades in local chat, etc etc).

The real problem with don't like it don't use it is that I am artificially limiting my choices, and that's not fun. A well designed game should allow you to barely complete it, after struggling a lot, using everything given to you. If I have to manually not use a skill because with it the game is too easy, the game reeks of bad development.

BlackSephir · Jun 04, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

That has be refuted a very long time ago. "Works as intended" and "doesn´t work as intended"! Look it up!

Would it affect your gameplay? YOU DONT HAVE TO USE IT YOU KNOW.

kostolomac · Jun 04, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Overpowered skills are there as measure against overpowered monsters. DoA isn't challenging , it's simply hard. Instead A-Net giving some good builds to the monsters and making their HP , energy and damage a bit above ours , the only thing to counter would be the build. Right now it's only one thing , damage , either us or them , whoever heals or prots the most damage while inflicting more wins. That's why ursan is "in" right now.

Abedeus · Jun 04, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Overpowered mob? No. Mobs are not overpowered (except for stupidly hard with pve-only skills like Molotov), they have higher hp (HAI ARMOR-IGNORING DMG), higher level (lul so what?), higher dmg (HAI PROT SPIRIT/SPIRIT BOND) and sometimes more spells (HAI MESMER). But they are IDIOTS. Use it.

upier · Jun 04, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Yet, because I didn't use it, by your logic, it doesn't affect me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

But if it doesn't affect anyone, why is there such an urgency to fix it?

Actually - no.
A.Net considered it to be a bug/problem.
That's why it was fixed.
What we thought of it - is quite irrelevant.

(The biggest issue of course being obtaining everything insanely fast.
And I don't mean Ursan-fast. I mean split second fast.
This causes a problem because:
1. player that invest insane amount of time into the game - feel cheated
2. players get everything what they want in seconds (literary!)
which means that both groups lose all interest in the game. And considering that GW2 is still a year away - those players might be gone forever!)

They don't consider Ursan to be a problem.
That's why, anyone that has a different opinion is ... simply said ... wrong.

Brother Andicus · Jun 04, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

HAY GUIZE SIGNET OF GHOSTLY MIGHT WAS TOTALLY BALANCED AMIRITE?

Because, shock as it is, Ursan being overpowered does affect my gameplay. If I want to play with other people (this being an MMORPG AND ALL) I am forced to spend time grinding Norn rank, even when I have other, more constructive things, to do with my time (revise, eat, sleep, run around LA spamming trades in local chat, etc etc).

The real problem with don't like it don't use it is that I am artificially limiting my choices, and that's not fun. A well designed game should allow you to barely complete it, after struggling a lot, using everything given to you. If I have to manually not use a skill because with it the game is too easy, the game reeks of bad development.

Whilst I agree with most of your post, I don't think its down to bad development.
Anet now has 3 years of proof that MOST players aren't very skilled at this game. Just look at the intense whine fest that happened when monsters started kiting when you hit on them.

So, when the small percentage of players that could play the game well wanted something more challenging Anet added hardmode. They then had 2 choices.
1) Make the monsters have bigger numbers, and
2) Give the monsters better AI and builds.

Had they gone with choice number 2, even with imba pve skills, the un-skilled majority would still be trying to figure out how to kill the first mob now.

So instead they went with option 1. The result being that unless you think quite hard about some areas they are really quite tricky (purely down to huge dmg numbers) to do without any PvE skills. And if they are tricky for the better players, that then leaves the majority with equally large problems that they would have had above. BUT, in this case, using imba PvE only skills to push their own numbers up can allow them to compete again.

And then finally, there is another class of gamer that Anet is all too well aware of that has the attention span of a particularly stupid goldfish and have no interest in anything that will be any sort of challenge at all. For some reason (that I have no idea what it is), some people only want to play if they can acheive the maximum with minimal effort. PvE skills in their current state cater to them perfectly. One of the best examples is in another thread right now. Searing Flames turns hardmode into easymode, and yet there is still a thread asking for a buff for it.

The end result is that the game caters for the majority and is in its current state.

The only influence you as a gamer can have really is to choose whether or not to use these skills. Theres loads of guilds out there, so finding one with some like-minded people shouldn't be impossible.

ogre_jd · Jun 04, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord High Pwner

Sometimes i wonder if the problem is more with the balance of power ( money), rather than skill balance in PvE. I've seen many posts about how A-net caters to inexperienced, QQ after QQ on Ursan and other skills that allow the "inexperienced" to get into higher level or "leet" dungeons.

Not that the 'inexperienced' ever have Ursan, really, given how much playing you actually have to do to get the skill in the first place and then to get it to a level where it's worth using (r5 or so - in other words, playing through EotN). Well, maybe a few people without experience get it because they've gotten people to powerlevel and run them through the game. But who gives a crap about losers like that?

Zena Starlight · Jun 04, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Might as well split PvE into two sections now...

Wtfpwned Mode: You can switch into wtfpwn mode in your log in screen where all skills do 200% more damage, All skills have instant recharge, All monsters are level 1. You can put 8 elites/pve only skills on your skill bar. With a minium of 3.

Normal Mode: You play with all overpowered skills balanceed.

PS. Once you go into Wtfpwned Mode, you are locked it there untill GW2.

Sounds like a good idea, amirite?

Akolo · Jun 04, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

But NONE of the (in your eyes) "imba" skills make the PvE experience too easy for the entire GW player base

i lol'd.

true, but if it isnt too easy, your doing something wrong.

Trader of Secrets · Jun 04, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

This ether renewal is insane. 2 of my alliance mates tried the renewal prot/heal builds and did a few vanq and HM mishs. Our party contain ursans and 1 mm bomber hero. They make awesome healers. Ive heard people say, "ele as healers, theres no divine attribute." But damn the heals kept on coming and the prot enchnts were almost always. The healers can even keep their distance with the constant heal party going off every second. Simply amazing, and I mean very simple. Finally another great alternative to the monk.

Bryant Again · Jun 04, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

They don't consider Ursan to be a problem.

It's why they don't consider Ursan to be a problem that's the chief source of concern, since both points you've mentioned pointed to both parties being disappointed.

DreamWind · Jun 04, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

I am absolutely STUNNED that people are still using the stupid "if you don't like it don't use it" argument. Anybody still using this is ridiculous in my eyes.

IF YOU IGNORE A PROBLEM, THAT MEANS THE PROBLEM IS STILL THERE.

Are you the type of person who when faced with a problem, ignores it, and then claims the problem is solved? If so prepare for a failure of a life.

Not to mention, overpowered skills DO indirectly and directly affect the rest of the playerbase in Guild Wars on so many levels that you can't even comprehend at the moment. Changes to the game affect the ENTIRE GAME. Talking about the game as if it is your experience alone and not the entire population is stupid.

Smart people posting here are talking about balance in regards to HEALTH OF THE GAME, and not from these selfish perspectives.

Lord Sojar · Jun 04, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Ether Renewal should be powerful, it wasn't even thought of before. I still don't think an ele spamming heal party on recharge is as powerful as an HB monk is. The only build I see this being an issue with is an ele that can maintain protective bond on themselves by constantly spamming spells to regain 20-28 energy on a 5 energy spell. However, even that isn't too much of a worry, considering the build would be very niche, and Shadow Form outclasses this for farming purposes.

Ether Renewal may see some limited use, which is great considering it has seen exactly ZERO use since its nerf many moons ago.

Avarre · Jun 04, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

But your argument is exectly presented from perspective of the player, yours to be precise.

I'm not arguing around how it affects me as a player. I'm arguing over how it shows the overall game design shift.

Quote:

First i don't see any of violation of original game desgin,

The no-attribute skills that get more powerful when you grind didn't tip you off? You not being able to notice it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Quote:

if SY or ER remove challenge and depth from game, and logically that means removing them will bring back the challange and depth to guildwars, so how come simply not using them won't make game deep and challanging for you ?

If you had been paying attention, you'd know these are not the entirety of the issue. They're one aspect of the long progression of PvE into its current state, along with mob and mission design.

Ether renewal isn't really a problem. They buffed a skill, that's fine. You still have to design a build to work with it and it still relies on mechanics like attributes and professions. If they made all PvE skills like this rather than the grinded versions they already implemented, I'd be a bit happier. Even some of the PvE skills have slight attribute requirements, which is logical. Allowing any profession to use any skill with no sacrifice for moving out of its own profession is just another step towards removing the complexities that made the game unique.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zena Starlight

Wtfpwned Mode: You can switch into wtfpwn mode in your log in screen where all skills do 200% more damage, All skills have instant recharge, All monsters are level 1. You can put 8 elites/pve only skills on your skill bar. With a minium of 3.

Normal Mode: You play with all overpowered skills balanceed.

PS. Once you go into Wtfpwned Mode, you are locked it there untill GW2.

Sounds like a good idea, amirite?

Let's do it. DoA ID1 for wtfpwnmode Mallyx.

Age · Jun 05, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

To me it is real no big deal doesn't seem over powered although i haven't played with it much since the pve buff.

Clarissa F · Jun 05, 2008, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zena Starlight

Might as well split PvE into two sections now...

Wtfpwned Mode: You can switch into wtfpwn mode in your log in screen where all skills do 200% more damage, All skills have instant recharge, All monsters are level 1. You can put 8 elites/pve only skills on your skill bar. With a minium of 3.

Normal Mode: You play with all overpowered skills balanceed.

PS. Once you go into Wtfpwned Mode, you are locked it there untill GW2.

Sounds like a good idea, amirite?

Never work. After a week or two, you would have people whining about how hard wtfpwned mode is, and A-tard would give Ursan a wtfpwned mode buff.

Sab · Jun 05, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Actually - no.
A.Net considered it to be a bug/problem.
That's why it was fixed.
What we thought of it - is quite irrelevant.

(snip)

They don't consider Ursan to be a problem.
That's why, anyone that has a different opinion is ... simply said ... wrong.

The view that the community have no say is not only boring and adds nothing to the discussion, but it's also incorrect. The community has a huge influence, and a lot of major improvements in the game were driven by these very forums. Unfortunately, the larger part of that community do not care for things like balance, that's why the game is getting shallower and shallower with each update.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 05, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

The view that the community have no say is not only boring and adds nothing to the discussion, but it's also incorrect. The community has a huge influence, and a lot of major improvements in the game were driven by these very forums. Unfortunately, the larger part of that community do not care for things like balance, that's why the game is getting shallower and shallower with each update.

And I remember Gaile saying that several community wanted changes were changed because of ANet intern discussions and not because of the wants of the community. There is no way of finding the truth there. Besides hadn´t Jeff said, that the forums are only a very small part of the community, which would mean that they can easily be ignored?